This story has been passed onto me second- or third- or possibly fifth-hand. Who knows how accurate the details are, or whether the words were spoken exactly in this way? But from my knowledge of the man in question, it is entirely believable. In fact, if it isn’t true, it’s the kind of story that would almost be necessary to invent.
An eminent and well-known English preacher was approached by a congregation member who complained about some aspect of church life. It may have been that he didn’t feel welcomed, or that he was finding it hard to make friends and fit in; it could have been that he was finding the service dissatisfying or the preaching too long; it could have been that the music was not to his taste or that his family was not being catered for to his satisfaction. The details of the complaint have been lost in the telling and re-telling of the story.
The preacher listened to the complaint, paused, and then replied with five words that cut straight to the heart of not only the man’s problem, but the problem with all grumbling and complaining in church. He simply said, “It’s not about you, stupid!” and walked off.
It was a stunningly rude response—the kind that this preacher seemed uniquely capable of getting away with in his very English way. But doesn’t it exactly express what is wrong with grumbling and complaining in church?
It really is the height of idiocy to think that church is about me and my needs and my family and my satisfaction. It completely overturns the teaching of the Bible—that church is about God and Christ and loving other people. In fact, if we wanted to summarize Paul’s rebuke to the dysfunctional Corinthian church in 1 Corinthians 11-14, a pretty reasonable slogan would be “It’s not about you, stupid!”.
So the next time you’re feeling grumpy about church, and are complaining that this or that aspect leaves you cold, remind yourself of the five-word answer to grumbling. And if you’re really game, when someone starts grumbling to you about how they don’t like the music or how they’re sick of the preacher’s jokes, just give them a slightly incredulous look, shake your head, and say, “It’s not about you, stupid!”.
Herein lies the greatest difficulty of living in such a self-centred society. It’s very difficult to comprehend that the world doesn’t revolve around me. The television and advertising industries are telling me everyday that it does!
I grew up complaining about every little thing in our beautiful and friendly church without once realizing the impact that it was having on those around me. Since I have become an adult and have been building on my understanding of church and ‘churching’ I have realised the damage grumbling can cause on others, and of course on my self.
Perhaps I need a tattoo on my forehead, ‘It’s not about you, stupid.’
BTW Perhaps, ‘get over it’ or ‘suck it up’ might be almost as effective to the new generation…
Ripper, that.
The thing is that as the preacher/pastor-teacher/worship leader it isn’t about me, stupid, either !
Will we ever leave behind the Great Evangelical Cult of the Personality ?
Yes, when the trumpet sounds.
It really is the height of idiocy to think that church is about me and my needs and my family and my satisfaction. It completely overturns the teaching of the Bible—that church is about God and Christ and loving other people
and yet, somehow, church is about me and my needs. I need God and the forgiveness of sins, as do my family. I hear that at church every week. It is for my satisfaction too, cos hearing God’s word and his salvation, being in fellowship with believers and singing praises to God is satisfying.
Also, if church is about loving other people, other people will be loving me. Awesome!
Church is not about me and at the same time is about me.
Jonathan Edwards is helpful when speaking of self centred love;
In some sense the most benevolent, generous person in the world seeks his own happiness in doing good to others, because he places his happiness in their good
About a decade ago, whilst working for a Christian organisation, my boss ripped into Sydney Anglicans at work. His reason? It wasn’t that the Bible wasn’t being faithfully taught at his church. It was because he felt that there was nothing in last Sunday’s sermon that “met <em>my<em> needs”. At the time I thought it was dodgy, but couldn’t put together a coherent reply. Why is it that you only think of, or hear about, a great response well after your opponent says it?
Very true.It has come to India too.
Many grumblers leave to start their own self-centered house churches too.
Hey!
This post is all about me!
Unfortunately.
Another contemporary reply is: “Cry a river, build a bridge and get over it, or jump off”.
Is there also an art to discerning whether there is an underlying pain in the complainant that needs to be heard?
Peter Adam delightfully refers to primary matters and other matters. The primary matters being important.
In addition to contemporary media fuelling the “me” ideas is market research and endless “satisfaction surveys”, ranging from hospital treatment to university courses, “Your feedback is important to us…”
I’ve often been attracted to preaching a series called ‘The customer is always wrong.’
Haven’t yet found the right excuse – maybe this is it …
Chris,
Maybe an expository series on the Book of Job
Some complaints, for sure, are ridiculous like not liking the pastor’s jokes but at the same time there are some ligitimate issues that may need to be addressed when complaints are raised. If someone complains that the church isn’t welcoming or that there aren’t the resources to help them (like accountability or other support) then the pastor needs to do what he can to resolve the issue. If people in the church genuinely aren’t loving one another as they should (John 13:34-35) then they need to pull their heads in, repent, and change. The onus then is on the minister to take each complaint and weigh it up, rather than dismissing it simply out of hand.
This can be a huge challenge when making a transition from one pastor to the next. A couple of my close brothers and I have had to say it to one another as we work through the changes a new pastor can bring.
May the Spirit of God guide us to encourage all our brothers and sisters to adpot an eternal perspective, instead of a worldly one.
If we think good, good will follow. If we think evil, evil will follow. We are what we think all day.
I appreciate the sentiment of this post, I really do. But it almost seems to dismiss any of these complaints as valid. Sure the complaining aspect may be sinful but maybe the music isn’t Christ-centered, maybe the preachers jokes are too numerous or inappropriate… I’m sure we would all agree but I just wanted to point it out
So true, so true. And a lot of these comments make valid points too.
But only one question……
I can’t hear an Englishman say that – they’re just too reserved.
Maybe it was actually an Aussie, and you’re transferring the blame?
Seriously, the poster who said we will only leave ‘self’ behind when the last trumpet sounds was so right.
Only then will we abandon our self-centredness. As Rutherford said it so well…“The Lamb is all the glory, in Immanuel’s Land”
Perhaps it’d help if we distinguish the types of issues that can be raised. There’s grievance/ concern resolution on the one hand and complaining, bellyaching, and grumbling on the other. Depending on the issue, the frequency of the complaints, and the motives for doing it (and there are LOTS of those) then it’s not as clearcut as it first seems.
But I think Tony’s point is a valid one and I’ve been a bellyacher at times, much to my shame. The next time I think about complaining again I’ll think carefully about making it because I think its selfish and sinful to overburden a minister, which Hebrews warns against.
Good post, but I agree with Haydn. We have to be discerning. Some complaints should be taken seriously. See Acts 6.
While I think the preacher’s response has the marks of truth around it, I think that there is a useful distinction between “grumbling” and legitimate concern for (as this post said) “God and Christ and loving people”.
To say more than that would overlook that a massive amount of grumbling in the church masquerades as theological concern when in fact it is about the monstrous “I” which wants to be at the center of all things. A good post with a message we should all take to heart.
Reminds me of an old story about a pastor in Michigan (Howard Sugden). Every Sunday morning an elderly teacher called with her complaints during his preparation time. She never had a question—just complained. One morning she made the mistake of saying, “I just don’t know what to do.”
Sugden shouted into the phone; “QUIT!”
Serve the Lord with gladness!
I think this response is under-used, not over-used. So, I do agree we do need more of this in today’s church.
But, I do agree with Geoff that the church is about individuals as well. We aren’t sinlessly, perfectly plugged into a machine called the body once we are saved. As others have said, we do need to be discerning in how to respond. Sometimes people just aren’t good at relating concerns, and it comes out as grumbling. In these cases, we’d serve them well to help them effectively—and biblically—communicate concerns to leadership.
So let me get this straight: this eminent, well-known preacher used his wisdom to put another Christian in his place. Is that the point to this story?
Is that what the Gospel is all about? Giving authority figures ammunition to put people in their place?
Had this eminent personage, so wise, and well-respected, so close to God and so full of His love, never chanced across Matthew 5:22? Was he not so humbled by his daily walking with the All-Powerful God and so deeply aware of his own sinfulness that he could easily flick away the speck in his brother’s eye?
Did he just not recognize the teachable moment? Or did he just not care? What a worthless thing to say.
We need to be open to legitimate critique, but I would propose some guidelines when attempting to discern a particular complaint…
1. the maturity and godly character of the ‘complainer’
2. the motivations of the complainer
3. the spirit of the complaint
4. even the complaints of the immature, selfish hateful complainers may contain some truth, so even if you determine the complaint is not valid, do not quickly brush over it but ask God for discernment concerning any possible correction you may need to make
5. lovingly rebuke the complainer
6. check your preaching: if it is needs-centered, the complaints may just be an expression of your own ‘gospel’
btw, I complain WAY too much about “The Church” Phil. 1:3-8 is a wonderful corrector to this attitude
Tony
I don’t quite get it.
you have a story that is unsourced, but it doesn’t matter if its factual because it suits a point you want to make?!
what is most believable about this story is the arrogance with which pastoral pro’s use their authority to put down and take shots at dissent with the pretense that its stupid and selfish grumbling.
who is this eminent and well known preacher? surely his notoriety would help your research of the facts.
I sense he may be far less eminent if you were to disclose that information.
you say “The details of the complaint have been lost in the telling and re-telling of the story.”
it would seem that a lot hangs on this information- or should we call it hearsay?
there is an appalling bias toward the preacher here. he is our hero, the complainer our villian.
How do we know what the heart of the villian’s problem is? how do we know the man is selfish? how can we asscertain the legitimacy of his complaint? alot rides on this information. surely his complaint needs to be grounded to ascertain whether the response of our eminent friend is any way justified!
and yet we do know what the ‘hero’ does. he calls a man a fool (Matthew 5:22) and is championed for being “stunningly rude” (1 Cor 13:4-7).
What if the complaint was that the preachers rudeness and pastoral ineptitude was unbearable! we just don’t know – but it makes a convenient point don’t you think?
frankly your conclusion (which I agree with) is based on a shonky premise – you’ve hooked and sliced all over the course on this one I am afraid.
If you fit the major demographic the church has been designed for its easy to dismiss grumblers. But try going to a different church where you are an outsider. For example, lets say you are white, middle class, English speaking – try going to a working class Korean church and see how you feel as an outsider.
Many grumblers in church are grumbling because they are outsiders to any major demographic that churches cater for.
Thanks for the comments everyone.
Rather like the parables of Jesus, this provocative little story really has only one point, and those who have tried to parse it for other things (like the nature of power relationships in church, or a fuller pastoral theology of how a church deals with disagreement) may be looking or asking for more than is there.
And yes, it really was an Englishman!
TP